55: Don’t Make It Weird: Selling Like a Human with Colleen Nichols (@noshamesalesgame)

In this episode of The Creative Bodega, I'm sitting down with Colleen Nichols (@noshamessalesgame) to talk about the messy, beautiful reality of building a business when life forces your hand. We're diving into what it really takes to grow on Instagram without ads, how to trust your gut when everyone's telling you to charge more, and why showing up authentically (cursing and all) might be your biggest competitive advantage. If you've ever wondered how successful entrepreneurs actually got started—or if you're drowning in advice from too many gurus—this conversation is for you.

Check out the full show notes for this episode HERE.

Things I cover inside this episode:

• How desperation became our greatest motivator—and why we didn't have the luxury to choose our discomfort when building our businesses
• The real reason people struggle to trust themselves (hint: you're consuming way too much conflicting advice from too many voices)
• Why showing up authentically—messy hair, car selfies, and all—performs better than perfectly curated content in 2025
• The comparison trap that even successful entrepreneurs can't escape—and how it kills your energy and performance
• The truth about Instagram engagement right now—and why starting a new account might not be as crazy as it sounds

Resources & Links mentioned in the episode:

• Follow Colleen Nichols on Instagram: @noshamessalesgame
• Colleen's book: Don't Make It Weird: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Being Human on the Internet (Amazon #1 bestseller)
• Engagement rate calculator tool mentioned in the episode

Connect with me:
🫶🏼 Follow me on Instagram for daily insights
🫶🏼 Join my 321 Create Newsletter for weekly content tips 
🫶🏼 Check out The Content Coven Membership

Be sure to hit "Subscribe" or "Follow" so you never miss an episode! 

Transcript

0:05

That needle of fear will always be in my mind, you could lose everything. So I show up because I know what it feels like to not have anything. And I think the people who don't know that it's very difficult for them to like get uncomfortable because they have to choose their discomfort. And I didn't have the luxury to choose my discomfort. It was thrust upon me and I had to do something with it. Welcome to the Creative Bodega, a podcast about content marketing, Instagram growth, and personal branding for female service-based solopreneurs who wanna grow their business without letting it take over their lives. I'm your host, EM Connors, and each week I'll share actionable tips, expert advice, and unfiltered truths to help you create engaging content, connect authentically with your audience, and turn followers into loyal customers, all without the burnout. If you're ready to simplify your content creation, navigate the ever changing trends and build a business that works for you while staying sane in this crazy season of life, then you're in the right place. Alright, you guys, I am so excited today I have a special guest. I've only ever had two guests on my podcast. The first one was my husband, Rob, which is an epic episode if you haven't listened to it yet. And then the second one was actually just. Student inside one of my programs who had a lot of success. So beyond that, this is my first like real industry guest I would say. And I'm super excited because she's pretty amazing and I literally wish I remembered how I came across Colleen Nichols. I. I have a feeling that a, a community member dmd me about her. I, I'm pretty sure somebody DMed me like, have you seen this or do you know this girl? Or after, you know, after me ranting probably about, oh, I'm sure. Yeah, maybe. I think I was talking about cursing. I'm not gonna lie, Colleen. You know, then they're like, you know what? I have the girl for you. I literally think, I was like, do you guys curse? I don't, you know, sometimes I do, but, and they were like, you gotta go check out. Colleen and I was like, come hang out with me, you'll be fine. Uhhuh Uhhuh. And then I did and I was like, I kind of like her. So Colleen is here. She, uh, is, you know, her, her IG handle just so everybody knows is no shame sales game. If you, you know, hear that, you might recognize who she is. Sometimes people know my IG handle and not my name. I know same face person. I'm known, I'm on the digital streets as no shame, no shame. Sales game. She helps women feel less awkward selling online because it says if you make it weird, then everyone's gonna feel weird. Which mm-hmm. Is so true. And luckily it's not something I have a problem with. Right. Uh, I don't know why, like, people, uh, would like to know. How did you get so comfortable? I don't know. Other than putting in the reps, right? Like, I don't know. I just kept showing up. I just forced myself. When it felt so awful and cringey until it didn't feel that way anymore. Mm-hmm. So, Colleen, welcome to the show. I'm so excited. Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah. Oh God, it's gonna be good. And I was just telling Colleen I don't really like when podcasts with guests are like super scripted, so I just wanted to like. I wanna ask que, I have so many questions. You know when you come across a successful female entrepreneur doing the damn thing on Instagram, you're like, tell me everything. Tell me, let's chat, but tell me everything. So just how did you get started? Like thats my God. Yeah. So it started at, it's been a, it was a messy mm-hmm. Journey. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a somewhat messy journey, but yeah. Um, back in Sophia, back, like to the very beginning, uh, there, I was pregnant with my second son and it was 2016. I was a stay at home mom. Like we were just talking about, I thought, oh, this is the life that I'm gonna live. And I had a, you know, 14, 15 month old at home and my husband lost his job. Wait outta nowhere are, were we, we living the same lives? Is this what happened to you? That's literally what happened to me. Shut up. I was pregnant with my first, my son. My son. My husband lost his job. He didn't have a job for two years. I had to go back to work. I hated him. And then I got pregnant again and he still didn't have a job. Shut up. Anyways, keep going. Oh my God. So, you know, you know, like I, you know, my background is in mental health counseling, so I was a therapist. Mm-hmm. And when I had my first son, the, I was dead set on going back to work the whole time I was pregnant. Like I had the daycare picked out, I had all the things and I had him and I was like, Ooh. No, maybe I wanna stay home with my little baby. And then when I, then I got pregnant again and my husband lost a job. I was like, oh my gosh, are we cursing on here or are we not? We're gonna keep it. Okay. I, you know what, this might be my first explicit, this might be, um, episode. You don't say, I'll be like, oh, shoot. Oh shoot. My husband sent me, my husband sent me a text and, and he was like, just got fired. And he was a VP at the company. And I was like, sir, I wonder if it's the guy that he keeps, you know, bitching about. They just fired, you know Bob? Yeah. And I called him and I was like, oh my God, just did Bob get fired? And he was like, no, I did. I'll call you back. I'm like, what the hell? So he ends up getting fired. And Virginia, you don't have, it's a, you don't, what's it called? Fire. Will, or you don't have to have a reason to fire somebody in Virginia. You can just like, really? So we had no warning anyway, so I was like, nobody's gonna hire a, you know, five month pregnant person. What am I gonna do? So I actually, against everything that I thought, I saw this girl, she's like, I'm a network marketing and I make this much money. And I was like. Well, I'm gonna try this. Uh, and so I started in network marketing and I actually was really successful and I made more than my therapist salary. And, um. Uh, I was able to sell so well because I just did it in my own way. And people were always like, how, how are you doing this? Everyone thinks, you know, it's a pyramid scheme. And I'm like, is it really not? It's just whatever. And so after years in the industry, my husband was like, you should start an Instagram account. Like just calling out the network marketing industry about the BS that you know, you see and all this stuff. And I was like, that's a great idea. So I did and I started no shame sales game and it was completely anonymous. And it was just these like text squares, oh no face. And like that's how it started. No face and for like months. And I was like, this is gonna be nothing. But within, I mean. Uh, the first month I had, you know, 5,000 followers and then 10,000, 20 thou all anonymous. And then I was like, oh, shit, I'm gonna have to tell people who I am. And so I did and I was like, Hey, I'm the, I'm the nobody behind this account with, you know, 50,000 followers. And then from there, that kind of served as my top of funnel for my community and I've been able to like, it's obviously morphed and, and pivoted over the years, but that's how it got started. You know, launched my community and I've made my first seven figures in 13 months. And the rest is, that's history. That's crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. So it's funny 'cause No, very similar. I mean, it was born slightly out of desperation. Yes, yes. You know, but, but I, and, and, and. Well, so for, for me it's a little different. I didn't start the Creative Bodega. We started a CrossFit gym and I had to build Oh wow. Our Instagram presence and get people in the door. So, and I, and I didn't know what I was doing, and my husband forced me on video. He's like, that's where it's going. You know, this was 2017. He's like, everyone done video you got? And I'm like, I fucking hate video. Yes, I am terrified. I don't wanna show my face. And, and, but we had. Nothing else like, yes. 'cause I, then again, he was laid off, never ended up finding another job in finance. We started our gym. I quit my job and we just were like, this is it. Yes. Literally my husband is in finance too. Oh my God. Yeah. So seeing yes, and it was like, you either get on video and, and try to grow your gym. Or you're fucked, like literally, like there is no plan B. So I feel like that, I think I needed that. 'cause I think a lot of women have a choice. So like, well I have my like nine to five and this is my like thing that I, I love, but like I don't wanna get on video and it's, well, pretend like you don't have a job, like a normal nine to. It's like you can't, you either have that, that needle of fear will always be in my mind, yes. Like it is always, you could lose everything and like even, you know, now it's seven, eight years removed, whatever, nine years removed, I'm still like, ugh. Like so I show up because I know what it feels like to not have anything. And I think the people who don't know that it's very difficult for them to like get uncomfortable. Because they have to choose their discomfort, and I didn't have the luxury to choose my discomfort. It was thrust upon me and I had to do something with it. Same. So, and I, yeah, I do think that. So how long have you had your business then? You said nine years. So, well, I started network marketing like 27, 20 17 in January. But my business now like the, what I consider my. Own business. Yeah. Uh, uh, it's been a little over, it was five years in December, so Yeah, so same as, that's actually the same as me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, crazy and. Did your husband end up going back to a job? What happened? He started his own business. What the, that's the same as me. Stop it. Stop. Like we, you know, once when he lost his job and he had like a three month severance, so we called it like severance summer, and we were like, oh, we can, we can make our own schedule and we can, we, like, we are like, this sucks. So we don't have any money, but like we could fi we, we could find a way. And it was, I mean. Between, you know, 2017 and 2020, we amassed a ton of debt. Like just because we didn't have it, we were just trying to make this entrepreneurial thing work. I mean, right when my business finally took off, we were over a hundred thousand dollars in debt. So I think that's another thing people don't. Consider, like we didn't have a, the choice was go back to work or be, be slightly delusional enough to think you can make this happen. And we had a lot of proof for years that it wasn't gonna happen and then it did. Like you just have to be kind of crazy, I feel like. Yeah, a little bit. Right. You think probably, probably you put it on paper to explain it to somebody you couldn't in good faith be like, this is a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. I can't, I'm actually in shock at how parallel our lives are. Like, really? Yeah. Well, we ended up closing. Well, I started the creative Bodega because I just got tired of, I didn't really love running our gym and at that point I had then been hired to help other gym owners grow their social media followings 'cause we had done so well. But that meant I was on like back to back zooms all day long, like, oh. Vomit, seven in a row, 45 minutes long. And then I have to get, get my kids to preschool. And I just wanted to die. My throat hurt and like, and our gym wasn't like financially doing great, so I had to take these calls and I was paid per call. So then we're trading time for money and I just was like. This kind of sucks. And and I did it for two, I did that in the calls for two years, and then I was, and I loved it. It taught me so, I mean, it taught me how to mentor people. Yes. And it, it, it really, I really did learn to absolutely love teaching and helping, but just not on that. Yeah. Not on the one-to-one trading time for money. That ain't it. But it ain't it. But it's also part of the process. It's part of the process. It's part of the journey, and I learned so much so that by the time then I ended up feeling so like, I can't keep doing this and my kids are gonna be, one of 'em is going to kindergarten. And so then I took Amy Porterfield's, DCA. Ah, fascinating. So that is how I was, I was, you know, just listening to her on my podcast and actually, no, I was listening to Jenna. I was a Jenna Kutcher girl. Wow. Oh my gosh. That's so, and then she had Amy on, and then Amy, you know, talked to me into the, the course. Yeah. And yeah, that's how I got exposed to it. So That's fascinating. Yeah. They have the whole life thing now. They're. Shutting stuff down and they're, yeah. Shutting things down, starting things up. You know, somebody sent me, because I've kind of sounded off about this in my stories and I did a real, oh, that's why. Yes, we talked about this. Yes, we did. Somebody sent me yesterday that, uh, Jenna put out like a new sub stack, sort of little rant about how women have to keep other women down, and that's. The angle she's going with on why there's so many of us kind of questioning like, why the podcast going away? Or Amy, why is DCAI didn't love the Angle. 'cause she was basically saying that when a man sees another man have success, they're like, oh, like tell me everything. Like, go bro. Like that's awesome. And when a woman sees another woman see success, they wanna like pick her apart. And I was like, I don't know about. That couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah. I was like, I don't, I don't track with that Jenna, but Okay. In my community, truly, like, and I talk about it with my people, I'm like, you know, once in a while I share financial numbers. Mm-hmm. Once in a while. And I never jumped hard on that when Amy, and, and you know, Jenna did that too, and a lot of women jumped on the, like, I'm making this every day and every month and every, and it was like suffocating to me. But I do it once in a while because my community tells me, I love when you share the numbers. Yeah. 'cause it makes me see what's possible a hundred percent. And it gives me goosebumps. And I'm like, okay. Like I do want to share that with you. And, but same with you Colleen. Like when I look at your Instagram and I see how much engagement you get, and I know you're financially successful, I wanna know everything. Like, oh, you know? And I love talking about it. And I think, I think that's the difference because I. I would, I love to talk about it and I, yeah. And I've only met women like peers who are abundant and don't mind talking about it. Yes. You know what I mean? I don't. 'cause I agree. Like with your community members, like I love to know what's possible. I don't like when I see, you know, a post that's, I made $80,000 today. And it's like, but, but how did you do that? Like what, what was the ad spend for that $80,000? What was the, what's the team that you had, what's, what's the actual profit of that 80,000? There's just so much that they're not sharing so many layers, so it's just, I don't, I don't like that, and I love, but I love talking about money. I love sharing because in, you know, in the right space and time. Women do need to know what's possible, I think, right? Yeah. It's, I wouldn't have known. It's cool when you find, come across somebody else who's like, yeah, I'm willing to tell you, like my last episode, my last podcast of the year was, this is what I made this year. Oh, and this is exactly how, this is where each chunk came from. And I don't run ads. And I'm like, I've got team members and this is the percentage that went to them. And like, just so you have a good idea of like, and then this is how much taxes, I mean when I, oh gosh. Oh my God. Oh my god. When I had to pay those quarterly, like I wanna throw up. Oh, I know when we pay taxes and I'm like, this is more than I used to like make in a year, uhhuh, you know what I mean? Uhhuh, Uhhuh. So I do find, like, I find this sick sense of like gratitude when it happens. 'cause I'm like, can you imagine I used to make that in a year. I know. And these are the, this is a tax. Like, so, but that's, that's, I'm gonna go listen to that episode because that is, I think. I don't think anyone owes anybody that I Correct. Think it's fascinating and really helpful because people who are aspiring to they, they need to know. Right, right. And yeah. And from a perspective of, you know, I've made more and that was like, I made more the year before and I made more year the year before that. Right. I mean, that was like the heyday. Oh. But last year were great, but I felt very at peace with my year last year. Mm-hmm. And it was a conscious decision. I, I mean, I, my husband is our finance guy, you know, I fucking hate the numbers. Yeah. I'm like, just, nah. Um, tell me what I need to know. Don't, don't, don't even tell me. So I, you know, was going to him and like. Do I have to launch? Yeah. Do I have to? Because my energy right now, I don't want to, and therefore it's not gonna go well. Oh. That is huge because people don't think about that enough. A lot. I have people come to me all the, you know, members in my community or clients that are like, I just don't feel good about this, or I don't like the pricing that my mentor told me to. And I'm like, if you don't, if you don't feel good about it and you don't like, like you, it's never gonna work. Never, never, never. And. Almost every time I launch something, I have a, a brand strategist who's been in my life and in my business for years, and my husband and I always go to them and I say, this is the price I'm thinking. And they always want me to go higher. And in the end I'm like, I can't do it. I'm, and they love, you know, they're, she, Steph, Steph is, she's always like, I love Rob. And Rob is like, I love Steph. 'cause they're, but like, go higher. And in the end I'm like, I have to feel a hundred percent confident when I say this price out loud and what you two want me to do. Doesn't feel right, so I can't do it. Oh my God. We literally are the same person. This is so everyone in my like, you know, face is just, it's ridiculous that you don't charge more. And I'm like, I know I could, but I don't. It just doesn't. And, you know, I have friends and I that talk about this, we're like, could we just be like assholes and just like just the other people and just be like, yeah, it should be a million dollar. I know. Just do it. And I'm like, I just can't. I, I need, I need sleep and I need to be able to sleep at night. Uhhuh. And I, I just, and I'm not saying that if you charge an, a massive amount of money that you shouldn't be able to sleep at night. But there, there are just things that I don't. I don't feel good about. Yeah. And I do, and I'm just, just to piggyback off what you've said, like I do think it's so important that women. Uh, I think that women in my community, I see it over and over, like they have such a hard time trusting themselves. Like, and, and it's just like, ugh. I just, I got goosebumps again. It, it's like the one thing that they could work on, and I am not the person to teach them how, because for some reason I just do. I don't know why. Right, just, just what is, even Colleen, even as stupid as I can't pick my branding or I can't pick which Canva template to use, and I'm like, which one do you that you have to be pulled towards something like trust what you like. Okay. My theory is that people are consuming so much. Advice from people. Mm-hmm. Like they follow so many coaches and gurus and they buy courses for $47 and then, you know, they're just, they hoard this stuff and they can't make their own decision because it's just weighed down by. 87,000 other voices and they're like, that are conflicting because of course we all have our own opinions. So Colleen says this, M says this Alice, Brock Johnson says this, Alice Osis. Not that I, that I would consider myself that way, but like, um, they just hear all these voices and they. They just consume so much that they've lost the ability to identify their own desires, you know? No. Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I'm even guilty over Christmas and New Year's, I felt so overwhelmed with the amount of content that I was being fed about like, do this in 2026. Don't, don't fucking do this in 2026. You're screwed if you're doing this. And literally, and here's my roundup, and I was like, oh my God, I have consumed so much. Like what worked for me, what didn't, what to do next. I went on a complete unfollow, like, oh, same rampage, same, yeah. On my feet. I don't follow. There are very few people that I follow, like air quotes in the industry because I can't. I can't, uh, handle it. Yeah. Can't handle it. Not only that, but I also find myself like with the comparison, like, God, oh yes. Why did that do so well for her? Why is I, I'm fully guilty, PE if you think I'm immune to that, like, no, everyone trust me? Yeah. Oh, the, the comparison trap is alive and well in my soul. Yeah. Like, I can't cast that demon out for the life of me because it, I mean, I see. Things do well for other people. And I'm like, and then I just feel like shit, like shit. And then when you feel you feel like shit, then you can't perform. Your energy sucks. Yeah. And your people feel it, even if they can't articulate it, they know that you're in a funk. Mm-hmm. And it's not good for you. No. And speaking of that, like your engagement is phenomenal, like, oh. So good. Oh, and I think a lot of it has to do with like how unabashedly you show up and it's entertaining. It's, it's, it's educational. 'cause you, you just will share exactly why you're doing something or not doing something. Mm-hmm. Or, but then you're, it's also. Funny and looks, and then there's the cursing, what science behind it, you know? Yeah. There's science behind it. Like people who curse people then pay attention to the words that you say after the curse word. Yeah. So it's just crazy. But I mean, it's, it, it comes naturally to me, but I know, I know. I mean, if you met my mother, then it would all make sense. But what is happening? That was, I was thinking falling asleep last night. I have to tell this story. My grew, I grew up with my mom who has the biggest potty mouth. She used to say her, her favorite. She used to say, when I was a child, my favorite word is fuck. And then no one like Colleen, because, and I grew up, I'm a cursor. Like I am. Like I, I, yes, but I hold, I hold back. I hold you. Don't. I do. I don't because, you know. Okay. So I don't hold back because, and again, this is just the way that my brain works. And I'm not saying that you do that or anyone, but like I have been. You know, back in grad school before any of all this, like I had a blog that did, you know it kind of well in the blogging era, and I would meet people and be so disappointed because I was like, you're not who I thought you were. Based on what I see on your blog. This is very. Upsetting. And even in network marketing, I would meet people and I'm like, oh, they're, you're so great. And then I was like, oh, that's not who you are. Yeah. Um, and I was like, I would rather just disappoint somebody up front. Like I would just rather them not like me from the jump. Yeah. Or like me from the jump, but I never want somebody to be like, oh, I think her content is so great, and she's so smart. And then it's like, oh, she's an ally for gay people. Like, oh, you're dead, dead to me. And it's like, wait, no, I, so I, I try to, you know, pepper it in there because I don't wanna, I would rather just you not like me up front. Yeah. No, I mean, that's fair. Do you have people kind of come after you like, yeah. Do I kind of, what? Are you joking? They're like, this is insulting to me. Yeah. Oh God, you guys were not doing video. You can't see my face. Uh, yeah. E every day. Oh my God. We, 2025 was a, a rough year for me because I lost more followers than I gained in all of 20, 25. People just, you know, and they can never leave quietly. Right. They have to announce their last word. And like give you an exit review that you didn't ask for. And they're like, here's why I'm unfollowing you. And I'm like, I don't give a shit. I would rather you just leave. So it's, it's constant people saying, I I would really love you if you could just tone down the language. And I'm like. Okay. Fuck you Karen. Yeah. Uh, or, you know, I wish you didn't talk about this kind of stuff. And it's like, I, you know, uh, always, always, always. Do you respond or do you just Um, it depends on where I am in my cycle. Yeah. You know, it depends. Uhhuh. If I'm in like ovulation, I'm like, you know what? I have time for this. And if it is in my luteal phase, I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna go cry. Yeah, yeah. Um, so it just depends honestly. But yeah, sometimes I do, sometimes and more so back when like it was more. Geared towards network marketing. I mean, people were making YouTube videos about me and like, oh, TikTok accounts, and like people were, I mean, horrible stuff. Horrible, horrible. Wow. So yes, I'm no stranger to the trolls. Okay. Okay. But you're able to just brush it off? Well, sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. For the most part. Yeah. For the most part. Yeah. I feel, uh, here's an interesting question. Do you, uh, acknowledge any political stuff? Do you Oh, yes. You do? You like get into it? Yes, I do. Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. Which most of you don't, which is fair. I get it. I know, and I'm one of those, I, I actually pretend like holidays don't exist. I don't acknowledge any holidays. Colleen like that's fair. 'cause if you're like, happy Hanukkah and then they're like, wait, what? We're Merry Christmas. No, I mean, I said to Happy Thanksgiving two years ago and somebody like came at me about colonizers. Correct. And then I was like, ah. So I am an Enneagram nine. I don't know what, oh, I'm sorry. I'm the peacemaker. Yes, yes you are. So I don't do conflicts. I don't, I don't wanna engage with anyone. I keep it like, I want everyone to love me. And so I just pretend like nothing exists and, and people have even come at me for not talking about things that are happening in the world. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. A hundred percent yes. Yes. And I'm like, listen, that's just not me. In, in, in my real life and, and on here, I, I am not sitting around with my mom friends really talking about current events. We're talking about our kids being annoying and our husbands, you know, so sure. I'm not gonna force myself to do it if it's not a place I wanna go. But if that's you, like, can go, like, I love listening to other people do it, but that's not me. So. Yeah. Yeah. I, well, I don't have many mom friends because I'm like, Hey, what's going, won't, you know, funding's being taken away. Don't, you know, they're like, Jesus Christ, fucking chill. And I'm like, I have a DH adhd. I can't, this is my neurodivergence. But, uh, yeah, that's, it's a, and you know, I've always. Been vocal about things because it is my personality. Yeah. And things are important to me and, but I, this is, if you've never done it, this is also a really hard time to like find your voice because there's so much going on. Yeah. That if you've never, ever said anything, I mean, you do truly run the risk of losing half of your. Business I know, or, I mean, truly for me, every time I talk about something, I absolutely lose followers. But it's, yeah, because people know it's not, it's not as big of a deal, but Yeah. Yeah, it's a difficult, it's a hard, hard thing to navigate. It is. It's, yeah. So when did your account take off? What year was it when your Instagram started? Just so it was 2020. Okay. Yeah, my third son was born March 16th, 2020. Okay. Right when the world was shutting down. Yes. And um, we, you know, we took a lot of walks as a family and, uh, yeah. And my husband had, he's like, you should make this account. And I'm like, that's a really dumb idea. But I started it 'cause I had nothing else to do and it took off. Very quickly shut, so, okay. Yeah. So kind of a, Hey, it's kind of like me. I, I, I took DCA in OCT September, 2020 Okay. Started my Instagram account and my email list immediately didn't launch an online course until April of 2021. Okay? And then in the following January of 2022, I had a, I, I reached 10,000 followers, Christmas 2021. Oh yeah. So proud of myself, you know, no ads. Um, yes, just worked my little booty off and posted consistently and talked about what I loved and helped people. And then in January of 2022, I had a reel go viral. Uh, thank God it was a camper reel. And you know what I want, you know that, that sucks when that happens. Yes. Oh God. It's not something you wanna be or just for fun or funny or Yeah, it's the worst is. So, uh, and then I went from 10,000 followers to basically 75,000 followers in like, holy tr, two weeks or something. Talk about anxiety like my, I'm just a sensitive person and just Yes you are. Oh God. It was so overwhelming. What felt like this like safe, warm hug community I suddenly felt. It was a bunch of strangers. Yeah. And I didn't, I was like, how do I show up now? You know? I don't know every, but then I just was like, just keep doing what you do and hope for the best. Yes. Um, but what people tell me now, and then basically from there, I'm at like 1 24, but like you, I've been at 1 24. I shit you not for like eight months. Oh God. Yeah. I mean, if not more, I, I could go look, but. Yeah, like it's been just, mm, like this is just where I am. This is like how it ends. This is it Uhhuh. But I have people saying to me that they wanna learn from someone who grew their account after the heyday of the 2020 to 2023. 'cause 2024 is when I wanted to just shut it all down. I was like, I suck. Everyone hates me and this isn't working anymore. Yep. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I hear you, but do you know anyone You know? Yeah. You know? What would you say to someone, this is a question I hate, but it's valid. Yeah. What would you say, say to someone who is starting now or starting in the last year and trying to grow their Yeah. Following. Yeah, I think, and so when I look at. I will study social media, you know, rather than, I mean, let's be honest, I watch heated rivalry. I just will, my, my algorithm is heated rivalry right now, but if I'm on TikTok and I'm like, you know, studying, the people that do well right now are the ones who are so. Authentic, and I don't mean authentic as a buzzword. Yeah, but they're not trying, they're they're trying by showing up. They're trying by, by being consistent. But they're in their car. They're in their bed. Yeah. They have on a hoodie, like it's not the. Overly, you know, oh, here I am, and an influencer in my McMansion, and here's the kale salad that I served my children for dinner. Yeah. It's, it's very real and raw. Yeah. And I think if I was doing that, I would wanna make sure that I'm showing up and talking to my people in that way. But, you know, I, I always, because I'm the same as you, I haven't done ads, I haven't done anything like that. And I think that when people. Relate to you on a human level outside of, you know, just the thing that you sell. Mm-hmm. Um, that helps too. So, you know, oh my God. Yeah. You know what I, yeah. So I think some people kind of, I don't know about your community, but people are paralyzed by the phrase niche down. Oh my gosh. They're like, okay, I'm niching down and I'm only helping moms and ages 35 to 35 and a half who have one child and a picket fence. And I'm like, just calm down. Just calm down. This thing about the niche is like your zone of genius, your topic of conversation that you could talk about, but also you have to infuse it with your personality. You have to like, when you're in your stories, you can be like. Guys, I was woken up by my kids sneezing in my face this morning. You know, bringing your human experience to the professional side I think is really important. But I mean, I think, and I fully, I mean if, if you guys go and listen to the episode, literally I think two before, when this one's coming out, this is exactly what I said, oh, it's easier than ever to show up. 'cause people don't care if, if you're have the perfect corner with the perfect lighting. I don't have fucking time for that. I literally have children. I have a. Pit bull laying snoring next to me. Life is crazy. And so, but more than ever, people love the car's, you know, selfie type video and they love when it feels funny and real and authentic and imperfect, and you don't need the perfectly branded photos. In fact, like for me, when I'm just, you know, taking like a selfie in front of the mirror 'cause I'm trying clothes on for something like, and I'll use that picture throughout a carousel, like, yes, that does better than the beautiful brand photos that my best friend took. And so it, to me that's, it's a much lower barrier to entry. 'cause you know, it used to be people are like, oh my God, I don't have money to do like a brand photo shoot. And like, guess what? That's not an excuse anymore. Like, no, it's not. Yeah, it's not gonna work. It's not, it's, it's really the raw stuff that does well because I think we've also reached that curation fatigue. We're over it. There's, there's a time and a place, obviously if you're, you know, your website or you're launching something, but for the most part people are like, can you just cut the shit? Like, yeah. Yeah. So, so another question. What does your, like content, what are, what are you doing right now? Like, I know you said you're, you don't do pod, so how often are you showing up? You said TikTok, do you have an email list? What's your roundup? Oh, Jesus. I'm, I'm really not as good as I should be. So I love how you said that you started your email list right away. 'cause I didn't, I sure didn't. I waited until you didn't listen to the gurus. I didn't. And listen to the gurus. That's one thing that I really wish I would've listened to. So I've, you know, started. Kind of growing my email list. I don't have like a, a sequence. I send emails when I have something to say. And then Instagram, I'm trying, you know, I, I like to show up and, and post, you know, maybe four reels a week and then I'm in my stories every day, not the weekends. But yeah. And I just. You, TikTok I consume on TikTok. I don't, okay. I don't create on TikTok because it scares me. People are so mean on TikTok. Oh my God. I, well, that's why I, are you kidding me? Me, I couldn't hear. I was like, no. I did like a 30 day challenge with someone. We posted like four to five times a day, and I like when it was over, I was like, okay, bye. Like, I'm outta here. No, I, I hate inside hate. There's just no community. Like there was no. Okay. Instagram feels like a warm hug to me and I know all my people are gonna be, that was like the coldest most judge. No, I couldn't do it. Yes, I totally agree. Yeah. And people like, I'm currently growing outta pixie cut and so when I was started making content, like I had my pixie cut and people were just. So, and I'm just like, what is, you can call, you can call me. I don't mind. Like if you call me ugly, like I get it. Whatever. Oh God. But like I can't do it in mass, you know what I mean? I just can't stop it. I was looking at your feet before we got on and I was like, oh my God, I love her hair. You were so brave to do that little, it was probably so, oh my easy. I loved my pixie cut. I had it for like 12 years. I loved it. But yeah, people are just mean, and I was like. Just picking your lanes. I don't feel like you need to be everywhere. No, no. And I'm, I'm, I'm pretty much solely Instagram. That's my top of funnel and my whole goal is to get everybody off of there and onto my email list. And, and then I started a podcast, and then I just started the podcast last year. Like, I took my time being like, what do I want to add on? And I was like, yeah, between Pinterest, because my stuff is so visual and that, yeah. YouTube, which all my overwhelm, like just, I don't wanna learn video or a podcast. And so, yeah, again, listening to my gut, what do I love? I love talking. I love being in my stories. I, you know, I would talk all day long there if I could. Yes, yes. So then I'm like, huh. Probably makes, makes some most sense to do the podcast. Yeah. I, how do you, what's your like. How are you getting people on your email list? What's the, oh my God. Love that question. So I send a newsletter every single week, and how I get them on is pretty much anything I post, I'm like, you know, here's a free resource that could go along with this. And so a million people comment and I have one dedicated post per week to some free resource of mine. Where that is, the gra, it's literally all about that. It's not buried in the caption. It's not buried at the end of a reel. It's not buried at the end of a carousel. It's just a straight up. And listen. Does it perform real well? No. No, but it gets a ton of comments. And then, let's see. I talk about what I'm gonna be talking about my newsletter and my stories, so I'm like, oh, you know, this week. This is what I'm sharing. Make sure you hop on my email list if you're not on it. Smart. And I do a lot of free, I think that's another thing people do. It's, you know, I have two freebies and then that's all I can talk about, but. I kind of think of really random shit to give people, like literally I love that low lift. I call them my one-off free resources. So like I did a reel yesterday where someone sent me an engagement calculator, like for Instagram, and I was like, I don't know if I hate this or love it. You can look up anyone and, but if you want it just comment like calculator. Yeah, that's not mine. I'm just providing a link. You know what I mean? And honestly, those do really well. I bet they do. They're random and, but people are like, oh shit, I wanna look mine up. Um, so they're willing to hand over their email address. So, you know, same thing, like I would, I, I, I had, I'm very, this is another topic and then we'll have to wrap up soon. I feel like I know, sorry, I'm just yapping. I feel like I could talk to you all day, but. I am very good about cleaning it. So like, you know, I've, I got up to 20,000 and now I'm at 13 because I am every three months now. I'm like, anyone who has not opened my email in six months, bye-bye. You know, and I'm just like, delete, delete. And they can come back. They can come back, but I need the Google, Yahoo, Hotmail. Gods on my side when I send that email, and my open rates are always above 50% and my deliverability is phenomenal because I'm keeping that so clean. Yeah. I wish I could do that with Instagram, like Right. I would give anything to be like Instagram, who hasn't seen my content in six months. Delete like. God, that would be awesome. Ha. I feel like I am, it's an uphill right now. What's the word? I don't, I'm, I'm not bashed. I am, I'm. I Shadow Band? Yes. For having so many followers. Like know, I feel like I get in tr I'm in trouble and they don't push my content to anybody. Nobody sees my shit and like nobody. My reels like 4,000 views and I'm like, literally what is going on? My story views are shit. Like I just, I'm I and one of my, you know, peers, you know, mutuals, she was in my dms and she was like, I haven't seen your stuff in so long. Like, it just happened. And I was like. Yeah, you and I eat when people say that to me, 160,000 other people, it's hard. It really, and then I see my students in my summit, my community, and they have like 2000 followers or whatever, and their stuff gets more engagement than mine and I'm like, I wanna start over. I was actually in my stories yesterday saying. Hey guys. I'm literally thinking of starting a new account. Oh, and just if you love me, follow me. If not, stay here. Like, yeah, I, I have as an experiment, Colleen, seriously considered that. That's a good idea actually. I'm really intrigued what would happen. Or we should just try, because if you've got your core people, and even if I had 5,000, like what would that look like, you know? Right. I don't know. I'm, I'm like, I'm telling you a little bit. I'm like. Of course I'm like scared, but then I'm like, what am I holding onto? Nobody's seeing it anyway, so it doesn't matter. It's vanity metrics that you're holding onto and your engagement rate's actually phenomenal, so it Oh, isn't compared. I looked you up. It feels like shit, like I'll tell you that I put your name in there, friend. You are like 4%, which, oh, I said week three, eight. And so, and then of course I looked at Jenna Kutcher. She was 0.38. Uh, no, Amy p was like at 0.14. So you're, you're, you're doing, I wouldn't abandon yours anytime soon, but Okay. That's good to know. See, yeah, you definitely, you're doing something right. Okay. Well that's good to know because it, in my head, the feelings part of it. Facts, not feelings, but uhhuh with this, but yeah. Oh my gosh. This is gonna be amazing. Thanks for having me. Yeah. You know, you're, you're great. And we've never met before, so I know. And I, I just knew, I mean, I knew we would, you know how your butt Yeah. See exactly. Tell people like what you got going on or how they can work with you. Oh yeah. Just come hang out with, come hang. Maybe I can add. Two followers to my backend account. Uh, I game to, yeah, no stream sales game, uh, is the best place. I have a community, but you know, you have yours, so I don't Who cares being yours? Um, I, I'm, I have a book. Oh. I'm an author. I, I wrote a book. No, that's crazy. Yes. I always, which is like, whatever, but it's called, don't Make It Weird. And it's the Entrepreneurs Guide to Being Human on the Internet. How did you that come, like how does that happen? Right. Yeah. Well, I remember it. I wrote a book, uh, so in all, a lot of my trainings in my community, like it's, you know, we do q and a and stuff like that. And the line that I always repeat is Don't make it weird. Don't make it weird. And I was, I had given a training many times about kind of like, uh, I called it the attraction marketing equation of just like how to be a human on the internet. And I was like, oh, shit. Like this is a book. And so. I wrote a book and it was a number one bestseller on Amazon. Like it, it's fun. That's crazy. So when was that? In this, tomorrow it'll be two years. Okay, so it's like 20, yeah. In January, 2023. So yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. You ever write another one? Uh uh. If I had an A publisher with an advance, I would write another one. But self-publishing is expensive, is self. Oh God. People, I think people don't realize they're like. That it's an expensive endeavor, so, yeah. So is it, like, did you, you make money or it's like a wash? Well, I've, I've finally, I did make money, but it took a minute. Um, yeah, because I think all in, I was probably 35 or $40,000 in Wow. Yeah. Because I worked with like a hybrid publisher. Uh, so anyway, but. Yeah, it's a, it's an investment. Okay. And I'm like, man, I would love to be a Jenna Kutcher, or somebody who, they're like, we'll give you money to write a book. You're like, yes, I will. But yeah, that's what I got. That's great. Yeah. Well, all right, well, we'll obviously put all the links for all the things for Colleen and the show notes. But thank you so much for being here. Thank you. This was awesome. Bye. Thanks so much for hanging out with me on the Creative Bodega Podcast. If you love this episode, please be sure to share it with a fellow solopreneur who could use a little content creation inspiration. And hey, don't forget to check out the show notes for any resources I mentioned on the episode. To help you create content that feels easy and actually gets you results. If you want even more Canva and content tips, head over to my website, the creative bodega.com, or find me on Instagram under the same name. Until next time, keep creating, keep showing up, and most importantly, try and have a little fun with your content. I'll see you on the next episode.